Hypothetical
The following is reposted by request. It ’s a record of a forum conversation conducted some months ago regarding gang stalking/Covert Investigations that has now been removed. The following was a “hypothetical conversation” between GS, and BB another poster.
BB-
1. I was talking to a friend about all the posts concerning Gang Stalking and community policing, and we came up with these things that we think may help counter the stalking.
2. (Intended For entertainment purposes only, and on the assumption such a thing as Gang Stalking exists of course, so don’t take any of this seriously).
He he he he.
3. Have friends sign up for community policing, so you have some one on the inside.
4. Walk your block, any were you can have a good vantage point of the area, is were they will be, so if you see some one there, it will probably be them. (Identifying, them is half the battle).
5. Bug your own car, in case they set you up, use voice or sound activated tape recorders when ever you can, like in your home. If some one comes in while you are out, you now have a voice. Carry one under your shirt.
6. Start your own data base; always have a camera or video with you ALLWAYS. Record possible faces and cars. (You could say you are making a movie or you are an artist as a reason for always being seen taking pictures of cars and people).
7. Lead them to areas were you know there is not much traffic or people, have a friend hide with a video cam, to catch the car plates and the people in the cares if he/she can.
8. (Call the friend from a pay phone).
9. If you are set up, take as many of them to jail with you as you can (set them up, he he he just kidding). If you can’t figure who set them on you, them implicate your known enemies, as drug dealers or rats or other. If you go down when they go through your computer or diary, and there is the names of the locals you think may be involved; now they are in the hot seat to.
10. Get a friend to call and find out were they meet and collect as much info as possible.
11. Have your lawyer ask if the accuser, or accusers, are, or have ever been, a part of community policing, and if they have ever been told to follow or monitor you, then lead to how often and how many people involved. (to show stalking).
12. Freedom of information form can be filled out by your lawyer, ask to see if the local police have ever had you under surveillance, for how long, how many involved, and if community policing was used. And why.
13. Place small peaces of paper on top of your door when you close it or tie a hair across it, or place a small breakable fuse under door mats when you leave to see if they have been disturbed when you get back home.
14. Spread pepper to through dogs of from smelling around or in your home, the basement in particular.
15. Keep a diary, and make burn CDs of all video and pictures you have of them. Make lots of copies, and mail or email them to your self or friends to keep.
16. Have more than one email address.
17. When possible have other people use you computer, (with in reason), if anything is planted by the stalkers now you are not the only one that has used it.
18. Call work (payphone) take the occasional impromptu long drive late Sunday.
You don’t have to go to work they do, and they (probably as many as four cars) will all have to pay gas. (Gets expensive for volunteers).
19. Bike up one way streets, (just kidding that is eligal and dangerous, dont do it, he he he) this annoys them when they are in cars, or take your bike in the trunk then pull over lock your car then bike.
20. When they stalk you in cars they will run a box type pattern, two or three will get in front of you and then one will split to the left and right to monitor if you turn right or left one will stay in front and one will be behind you by a few blocks. You are now boxed in no matter what direction you turn. Exhaust them and there gas and resources by walking or driving a few docks in one direction then go back then reverse it, you travel less than they do they spend money.
21. When you see one of them approach them, and ask for the time, or start a conversation there friends will gather, but they are not supposed to talk to you as they may find out you are innocent and this will cause them to question there superiors, and there operation could be jeopardized.
22. If they cause you to loose your job, then you have complete control over the hours you sleep and were you go, make them follow you at three or four in the morning then switch your sleeping pattern.
23. Condition them to expect certain behavior (walk at the same time every day, go to the same coffee shop), then when you need to you can throw them a curve.
24. Be around people as much as possible.
25. Get a police background check done on your self, it costs about $25.00 then when it comes back clear use it to try to join community policing, (now they cant say they did not know you were innocent and not a criminal, in court this is a good tool).
26. Have friends get the police check done and have them join community policing, so you have inside information to confirm you are being stalked.
27. Do volunteer work in the community to improve you image and to cause the stalkers to doubt why they are stalking someone that is helping the community. And to be around people and to stay sane.
28. Don’t be a victim; use your imagination to set them up and to expose them. Dont assume there is no counter to Gang Stalking, if it was invented by man it can be broken or counterd by man.
Don’t take any of this seriously it is all hypothetical and not intended as advise of any kind. As we all know Gang Stalking does not exist. He he he he.
GS-
Thank you for the hypothetical suggestions.
Yeah well apparently gang stalking does not exist, from what I can see it was set up as disinformation to lead targets astray from these stupid insidious Cointelpro type investigations that are happening to innocent people in society.
They threw in just enough truth to make it feasable, so that when targets go to the police, who fully know what’s happening, and start complaining about gang stalking, they get their butt’s kicked, or get termed crazy, or whatever.
You have a covert investigation, where there people friends, families, employers, landlords etc, are contacted and told God know’s what about these people, and then they get asked to spy on you. Also with the community civilian snitches, who use their little Stasi signal to communicate. (How appropriate.)
If I had known when this junk first began that that was what was going on, I could have gone straight to a lawyer, and said hey look, this is what seems to be going on, can you do anything? Instead I had to spend months looking into this, to try to figure out what is happening to the targets.
People like David Lawson who wrote terrorist stalking in America are either government agents spreading disinfo, or just really stupid. Considering the term gang stalking did not come along until after his first book, and now they seem to be trying to fade out the term it’s so irritating.
From what I read about Kilmeer Gill, you know that Montreal shooter, it sounds like he might have been under watch for over 6 years. Things that were written in his blog, sound like this, and if that’s the case, they might have driven him to a state where he was capable of hurting those people. I think the actions of these covert investigation are criminal themselves. Just like Cointelpro was criminal and conducted by the government, it’s the same thing, but now they are using civilian spies to help ruin the lives of innocent people.
Do you know how many people are taking part in this, who don’t know the harm they are doing to others, or the roles they are really playing? I think that the media have a responsibillity to report this stuff, and to do investigative documentaries about this stuff, but just like during the McCarthy era, they won’t, and more innocent people will just get destroyed. It saddens me to realise that we are once again in such at time period.
With people trying to sensor this information. It really makes me very angry, that someone would censor information on something that is affecting innocent people. People have a right to know, and they trust the media to tell them.
At least some of the truth is getting through, but it’s a shame that more media people are not stepping up to the plate and trying to do the right thing. Whatever that is in our new survellence, snitch society, where everyone monitors everyone else.
BB-
What you say about Kilmeer Gill sounds possible, he did say he wanted to get away but that they wouldn’t let him, or something like that.
He sounded like he could have been Gang Stalked to the breaking point.
I don’t understand why people don’t legislate for:
1. Them to have identification displayed that could be easily seen from a distance for the safety of the people they follow and assume guilty, and for the safety of the general public, and the volunteers them self’s.
2. I am asking what safeguards are in place for the public, to show there is no abuse of power by the COPP type programs.
3. What is in place to stop them (COPP) targeting Natives or others, based on a bias or the word of someone with a grudge or even on the word of a cop.
4. Where are the neutral third parties and the transparency for the public to observe?
And question and watch them at will.
5. Where or at what point are the people targeted allowed to see the evidence against them and to disprove it to the COPP, Gang Stalkers?
6. What is the Government doing to be held accountable for the safety of the citizens on patrol volunteers, and the people they may follow, or Stalk, on behalf of the police (Hypothetical example).
7. Why are there no limits to the length of Stalking time to avoided disasters? Kilmeer Gill as possible example you have given. If the police have to have programs like COPP to Stalk or harass people for them then there should be a limit of two weeks or months. After that the police should do there own work, or have CSIS do it for them.
Have the COPP programs set them selves up as judge, jury, and executioner?
Inventing evidence when none is there to justify there existence?
The COPP programs volunteers would not be told that they are harassing innocent people, and most would not question there authority figures. They would simply be unaware that what they are being asked to do, is legal (hence the need for no identification on cars or persons).
Nor would they need to know they could be the cause of someone snapping or committing suicide, as you saw this is a real possibility. I guess it would all depend on how fanatical there leader is. All this is a possibility, so what precautions are in place?
And the problem comes when they start stalking people that are not criminals, but that may have been out spoken either against police or government or other groups.
Even a good person can be painted as a criminal when they (COPP programs) choose to use these tactics, with police backing.
I am not saying that this is the case, but Is this Russia are they the COPP programs against people having the right to answer to what ever COPP has accused them of, that may have caused the Gang Stalking in the first place?
What safeguards are in place by the Government for the public, to show there is no abuse of power by the COPP programs?
It they were to “gang stalk” people on behalf of the police or other force (just an example you understand).
I would think it would be dangerous to them, as most criminals are a little paranoid to begin with. Having them (alleged criminals) “gang stalked” on behalf of the police, would place them the citizens on patrol in danger, as they may be mistaken for other criminals or gang members.
Are these people required by the Government to wear easily seen identification on there cars and persons at all times?
Have the police ever gotten the citizens on patrol to follow or “Gang Stalk” people under a presumption of guilt rather than actual guilt?
After all the RCMP fiascos can we afford not to ask these questions and have safe guards put in place?
All of this is just wild speculation and rumor of course.
Why has no one tried to get inside there groups and expose them?
Why has no one tried to write a book outlining some of there tactics. And measures to counter there tactics (it would be a hell of a money maker).
All of this is just wild speculation and rumor of course, based on the assumption that such a thing as Gang Stalking by police sponsored vigilante type groups exists.
GS- Here is some more information on Gill and why I think he really was a target of this practice, and I think this is what lead to the shooting in Montreal. This is why I think what I do, and this is why I would like to see more media information about this.
For those with a short memory you might remember that Kimveer Gill was the young Montreal man who went on a shooting spree several months ago killing at least 1 person and wounding at least a dozen others.
Most people just wrote him off as a nut case who was into video games and mixed up fantasy with reality, a goth who hated society. For those of us who stopped to read some of his postings to gain clues to what might have happened, there is an angle that has not been discussed, that has not been talked about.
Here are some of his blog postings that I found really interesting.
Dated September 12, 2006
[quote]Stop Bullying
It?s not only the bully?s fault you know!!
It?s the teachers and principals fault for turning a blind eye, just cuz it?s not their job. You *uckers are pathetic.
It?s the police?s fault for not doing anything when people conplain (oops, my mistake, the cops are corrupt sons of whores, so it?s not like they can do anything about it.)
*UCK THE POLICE
It?s society?s fault for acting like it?s normal for people to be assholes to each other. Society disgusts me.
It?s everyone?s fault for being so apathetic towards *ucking everything that doesn?t affect them personally. *UCK YOU SOCIETY.
[/quote]
It sounds like his bullying, which is what he called it, might have involved trying to get the police to do something, but it sounds like they not only did not do anything about the bullying, they also he ends with calling them corrupt. Why?
Not so outside the realm of what you might find in many other bullying cases, but here is something that is particularly interesting.
[quote]I wonder why my household has been under surveillance by law enforcement for 6 years now? Makes no sense to me!!
Oh, you?re wondering how I know?
lol
Bet you little monkeys are
Hey, assholes!!
Everything everyone says or does against me is shown to me in my dreams, I see everything. You *ucking monkeys.
God, you humans are so inferior.
[/quote]
The above is taken from the trench coat site, where they have his blog postings. Now the last post was the one I found the most interesting, when doing research on this. Trying to understand if in fact the actions of others, did in part lead to the situation in Montreal, and if so what can be done to prevent it and avoid it in future.
I am wondering what guidelines there are in place for things like this, but after reading about Mahar Arar and the bs the CSIS and RCMP pulled, I realized there is no one moral at the gate. I mean they realised the man was innocent and did nothing to change the perception of his guilt and were willing to let him rot in some country where he was being tortured, and part of why he was on some list had more to do with who he had associated with in the past.
[quote]Zaccardelli says he first learned that the Mounties had passed erroneous information about Arar on to U.S authorities after a public inquiry report was released by Justice Dennis O’Connor in the fall of 2006. In September that year, Zaccardelli told a parliamentary committee that he had learned of the RCMP’s mistake shortly after Arar’s deportation to Syria in 2002. [/quote]
From what I understand after ralising that the RCMP was corrupt, they created CSIS only to have the same corruption happen all over again.
They knew they had passed on false information and did nothing to correct it, if anything they did the opposite. These are the people we are suppose to trust, to protect us and the rights of innocent citizens.
[quote]RCMP Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli breaks more than a week of silence on Maher Arar’s ordeal, apologizing for the “nightmare” that arose when the Mounties wrongly linked him to terrorism. Speaking before the House of Commons security committee, Zaccardelli denies that the government muzzled him from speaking earlier on the case and insists he will not step down as commissioner over the affair.
Several critics have called for Zaccardelli’s resignation following the revelation of the RCMP’s blunders, detailed in O’Connor’s report on the investigation.
[/quote]
The same thing happens in these covert investigations. I can see why they are opened in secret to an extent, but based on extensive conversations with people that are being harassed in this way, there is a lot being done to set them up so that they can look and come across as crazy. Wither it’s them being batted in public, so they can have an angry outburst, to them having their home entered and stuff moved around, or other small things that make them sound collectively crazy it’s the same thing, and there is seemingly no reason for it.
The other thing is some of these people are whistle-blowers, minorities, and single woman, people that are marginalized or independent, the type that for whatever reason the government has decided to go after. There are people that I have talked to that have said that this has been going on for 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. How inefficient would you have to be, that you need 20 years to determine if someone is a criminal, crazy, terrorist, whatever lie you are making up? Honestly.
There does not seem to be any moral force governing this, and from what I can see, have observed, and confirmed with others, the police are fully corporation with making these people sound like they are crazy when they go to the police. Eg. The police are aware of these eyes and ears programs, when I spoke to one office he had in his division 5 reports of stalking of this specific nature. The reports were apparently all from single females, and yet he was writing them off as paranoid. (These community officers know about this program, because they are the ones who are in charge of it for the various divisions, just to give you an idea.)
From what I can see it seems that a large part of society is going along with the snitching and civilian spying, but not necessarily the brightest part of society, or the cleanest. What I mean is, I have seen some people that I am pretty sure are criminal elements, who acting as civilian spies, and I am so grossed out by that. I mean snitches will sell their mothers out for money, why not innocent people?
Since this is being used to target certain primary groups, what you have said about this being used as a revenge service has a lot of merit. To this date, there is no clear guideline that I have been able to find to the length of time a covert investigation can be ongoing for, the guidelines for incidents getting reported. Eg. I mentioned targets being set up by some of these snitches/civilian spies.
[quote]1. Them to have identification displayed that could be easily seen from a distance for the safety of the people they follow and assume guilty, and for the safety of the general public, and the volunteers them self’s.
2. I am asking what safeguards are in place for the public, to show there is no abuse of power by the COPP type programs.
3. What is in place to stop them (COPP) targeting Natives or others, based on a bias or the word of someone with a grudge or even on the word of a cop.
4. Where are the neutral third parties and the transparency for the public to observe?
And question and watch them at will.
5. Where or at what point are the people targeted allowed to see the evidence against them and to disprove it to the COPP, Gang Stalkers?
6. What is the Government doing to be held accountable for the safety of the citizens on patrol volunteers, and the people they may follow, or Stalk, on behalf of the police (Hypothetical example).
7. Why are there no limits to the length of Stalking time to avoided disasters? Kilmeer Gill as possible example you have given. If the police have to have programs like COPP to Stalk or harass people for them then there should be a limit of two weeks or months. After that the police should do there own work, or have CSIS do it for them.
[/quote]
1. See they are suppose to be just average citizens while out on the road, they act as the eyes and ears of society, so for the snitching purpose of this, giving them identification would not work. The other problem is because there is no id, anyone and I do mean anyone can take advantage of this. If I am aware of this, who else is? Skin heads, KKK, can you imagine them baiting a target, then several of their friends reporting the incident of the crazy target? Hitlers Brown Coats, use to do this to the Jews in WWII so they could make them act out and get arrested, and now we have this in our society.
2. There are no safeguards from what I can see, because if the target of this can not give their feedback or input, then it’s completely bogus. Eg. Even when targets file police reports, the police reports are often not filed, or purposely twisted around to make the target look crazy. Also with the baiting, the target never get’s to explain why they got angry or yelled at someone. Guilty because some corrupt people say so, and the target get’s no input, and from what I can see, there are people purposely baiting targets, with the blessing of the people in charge. (From what I can see.)
3. There is nothing to stop them, and based on who is getting targeted, it looks like they are one step ahead of you with choosing whom to target. Society already has the police racial profiling people this is just one more way for them to do it and long term, until someones life is destroyed. There is no time line for these investigations.
4. Not only that, but if you suspect you are under investigation, there is no place to go, and no party to turn to. Amnesty will not help with this, and most lawyers can not discuss this, because how many have also agreed to be the eyes and ears of the state? So targets are left with no resources to clear their names. And since the media will also do nothing to help, most don’t know what exactly is happening to them.
5. They are never allowed to see the evidence against them. Just like Guantanamo Bay, So there could be tons of erroneous bs, and all the target know is maybe they can’t get an apartment, or find a job, or people are mean or rude to them, but they have no idea why. The ultimate way to black ball and black list someone, and where is the media to help them? Nowhere.
6. I don’t know about that, but if Gill was a target of this, then they should be charged equally with the death of that girl. You can not do something so inhuman to someone and then wonder at the outcome. We now recognise this in bullying and the connection to school shootings. We need to acknowledge this as well. I think the thing with these investigations is that some targets will kill themselves, others, go to jail, become homeless, or be institutionalised, and if only a small percentage is damaged every year, it does not appear that bad.
Videos: Cointelpro.
1. Youtube
2. Youtube
3. Youtube
4. Youtube
7. Because from the research that I have been able to find, and from talking to others, just like with Cointelpro investigations, the goal is to destroy the target. They did this to Martin Luther King Jr. People have to understand that governments do bad things. If the media would do their jobs, then this would be understood.
They tried to destroy that man, and when that failed, they targeted him for termination, and a month later he was assassinated.
[quote]Have the COPP programs set them selves up as judge, jury, and executioner? Inventing evidence when none is there to justify there existence? [/quote]
I think the people running this have set themselves up to be just that, since there is no input from the target. How in a democratic society can you be declared guilty without seeing the evidence against you, and have you life so interfered with. I mean these people will contact everyone in a targets life with the same lies, and ask or force them to go along with the spying. Every store a target goes into, they are exposed as someone who needs watching wither it’s true or not.
Exactly. Inventing evidence to justify their existence. If they can show that we have a bunch of unstable, criminal, terrorist people in society, then it’s funding for them. It’s reason for their existence. There is no one saying hey wait a second, how do we know it’s true? Cointelpro all over again.
[quote]The COPP programs volunteers would not be told that they are harassing innocent people, and most would not question there authority figures. They would simply be unaware that what they are being asked to do, is legal (hence the need for no identification on cars or persons).
Nor would they need to know they could be the cause of someone snapping or committing suicide, as you saw this is a real possibility. I guess it would all depend on how fanatical there leader is. All this is a possibility, so what precautions are in place?
[/quote]
Exactly. Then you get a term like gang stalking and it just confuses things. Eg. The target goes looking for answers and via the term gang stalking, they are told it’s these evil vigilante types that are committing this stuff. They know themselves to be innocent so of course they believe that it’s vigilantes.
Meanwhile the people doing the stalking, sorry civilian spying, see about 15 minutes of the targets life. So they really do believe they are stalking someone who is crazy, a criminal, danger to society, whatever lie they have been told. A lot of them are just trying to be good citizens.
So you have two world’s colliding. The target who is followed and harassed every freaking day gets it. They feel victimized, and they have no place to turn for help or assistance. They become a creature with their back to the wall, most will eventually come out fighting.
The civilian spies might be told to jiggle keys at someone every time the subway announcement is read out, while someone else none partial observes the behaviour. (This is how it’s suppose to be neutral and none partial, and fair.) What they don’t see, is the little trouble maker who tried to shove the keys in someones face, and upset them just 10 minutes later. Thus they get angry because they are acutely aware that they are being harassed and they don’t like it.
So from the targets point of view they are getting harassed, from the person who is observing this, the target is acting irrational. Cause they don’t see the people who tried to trip the target, while the other jangled keys in front of them yesterday. Etc. This goes on, and they take the input of the person doing the observation and the civilian spies. So it all looks neutral. I mean 7 civilian spies who don’t know the target are not going to make up a lie right? If they don’t have the whole picture, then yes that is what they are doing inadvertently, and it’s shame. A lot of the civilian spies are not bad people. They think they are helping the country.
I mean they don’t any better. They are asked to observe someone for 15 minutes, they see them flipping out, they file a report, and they never ask or question the events that came before it.
[quote]And the problem comes when they start stalking people that are not criminals, but that may have been out spoken either against police or government or other groups.
Even a good person can be painted as a criminal when they (COPP programs) choose to use these tactics, with police backing.
I am not saying that this is the case, but Is this Russia are they the COPP programs against people having the right to answer to what ever COPP has accused them of, that may have caused the Gang Stalking in the first place? [/quote]
In Russia they used this on activists and dissidents all the time to make them look mentally ill, so they could lock them away.
The other problem is they are using criminal elements to be the extra set of eyes and ears. So you have low lives, also helping to stalk innocent people. Clearly I don’t have to paint this picture for you.
[quote]What safeguards are in place by the Government for the public, to show there is no abuse of power by the COPP programs? [/quote]
In the research that I have done over the last 10 months I have found nothing. The police will not talk about the investigations or how someone get’s off the list. (I have been able to get that far, but stalled with the investigations unit.) The RCMP have a complaint process, but it’s for a complaint against a specific agent or person.
Since targets don’t have names, or a clear info about which division is doing what, who is heading stuff up, it’s really hard. Also since the police are lying about this, it’s almost impossible. Very few will admit to the program and very few will try to do anything to help targets. Most will flat out lie and say there is no such thing. (Harder for them, since the article came out, but they do still try.)
[quote]Have the police ever gotten the citizens on patrol to follow or “Gang Stalk” people under a presumption of guilt rather than actual guilt?
[/quote]
I think we all know the answer to this question. You have some really good questions, and you understand this really well. Hypothetically of course.
[quote]After all the RCMP fiascos can we afford not to ask these questions and have safe guards put in place?
[/quote]
No the truth is, we can not afford to, but yet we do anyways.
[quote]Why has no one tried to get inside there groups and expose them?
Why has no one tried to write a book outlining some of there tactics. And measures to counter there tactics (it would be a hell of a money maker).
[/quote]
The problem is as a target, you will not be asked to be a civilian spy, so you have to use those investigative journalist skills to find out any details.
Phones bugged, acquaintances all of them contacted, so they are all sworn to secrecy, and most do keep their mouths shut. Only a few targets have been lucky enough to have good friends clue them in.
I agree with the book idea, but because of what David Lawson did with his book, it might make targets look questionable.
[quote]Stalking by police sponsored vigilante type groups exists.[/quote]
Remember they don’t call it state sponsored stalking. They call it being an extra set of eyes and ears. It’s so nice the PC terms being used. I guess to call it the means of driving your fellow citizens to suicide, mass slaughter, institutionalization, jail, or homelessness, just does not have the same ring to it.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/FBI/Lessons_COINTELPRO.html
[quote]Surveillance and infiltration are weapons in the arsenal of the state machinery-from dictatorships like Egypt to Western democracies like the United States. How else could minority elites hope to monitor and stifle dissent among their exploited and oppressed majorities? Especially in times of war, when the façade of diplomacy is lifted and the true brutality of states is unleashed, a premium is placed on silencing or crushing any domestic discord that threatens national unity. War abroad, to put it bluntly, is always accompanied by intensified repression at home.[/quote]
Why did I think it had all changed?
The cops, judges, citizens, society, why did I think it had all changed?
I mean when I first learnt about Cointelpro and McCarthyism I learnt that at some recent time in history, the authorities of our society, our judges, cops, media, politicians, and many in society had contributed to these horrible time periods, which destroyed many good people. I learned that this insanity had continued and gone on for years under J. Edgar Hoover and other men like him. So why did I think it had all changed?
A study of McCarthyism. – http://www.colorado.edu/AmStudies/lewis/2010/mccarthy.htm
http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/50s/schrecker-blacklist.html
[quote]The two-stage nature of McCarthyism, in which political undesirables were first identified by one agency and then fired by another, increased its effectiveness. By diffusing the responsibility, the separation of the two operations made it easier for the people who administered the economic sanctions to rationalize what they were doing and deny that they were involved in the business of McCarthyism. This was especially the case with the essentially moderate and liberal men (few women here) who ran the nation’s major corporations, newspapers, universities, and other institutions that fired people for their politics. Many of these administrators sincerely deplored McCarthy and HUAC and tried to conceal the extent to which their own activities bolstered the witch-hunt. [/quote]
Because that was then and this is now. I assumed that it had all changed, but why would it? The media from that time did not get fired, the people of that time who helped ruin the lives of innocent people and black list them did not get fired, infact Ronald Reagan went on to become president. http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/6458/
If anything it was the victims who remained at large, hidden, still hardly able to find jobs.
It’s not the cream that has been rising to the top in society, it’s the mean, and I guess it’s always been like that. Also those people private citizens who remember Cointelpro, Red Squads, and McCarthyism, they remember what society can do, and they would have learned their lessons about complying with this system. That is why most don’t speak up or say anything, or get out of line, they see what can happen, they are not under the painted reality that has been set before so many of us to believe.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/FBI/Lessons_COINTELPRO.html
[quote]The Espionage Act of 1917, and an amendment, the Sedition Act of 1918 made it a crime to “willfully utter, print, write or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the form of government of the United States,” punishable by a $10,000 fine and up to twenty years in prison. During the Palmer Raids in the aftermath of the First World War, the Bureau of Investigation-forerunner of the FBI-rounded up 6,000 radicals and exiled 1,000 foreign-born socialists and anarchists, using these acts as justification. During the McCarthyite witch-hunts of the 1940s and 1950s, a coalition of government bureaucrats, employers, and right-wing activists hounded and fired thousands of communists, leftists, trade unionists, and civil rights activists. These legal suspensions of democratic rights, often initiated by Democrats and almost always supported on both sides of the aisle, were promoted in the name of defending national security. Each time these activities expanded the scope of state repression. Radical historian Noam Chomsky describes how following the Second World War, Senate liberals including Hubert Humphrey (D-Minn.) and Estes Kefauver (D-Tenn.) proposed “the ultimate weapon of repression: concentration camps to intern potential troublemakers on the occasion of some loosely defined future ‘Internal Security Emergency.
-2 Not much has changed since then. Don Goldwater, son of the late senator Barry Goldwater and GOP candidate for governor in Arizona, recently called for the creation of forced labor camps for undocumented immigrants.
3 The so-called liberal media, such as the New York Times, which sat on the NSA story for a year at the request of the Bush administration, applauded the expulsion of a socialist assemblyman following the Palmer Raids. In the aftermath of the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia, the Washington Post editorialized against “hairsplitting over infringement of liberty.
“4 A new generation of antiwar and social justice activists needs to learn the lessons of the last wave of state repression, spying, and infiltration. There is far too much ground to cover on this broad issue than can be done justice in the scope of a single article, therefore I’ve chosen to focus on a few highlights [lowlights?] of the government’s intervention in the Black liberation and socialist movements in the late 1960s and early 1970s.[/quote]
Why I thought it had changed is beyond me. The first thing that happened right after 9/11 is that people the the government had hounded and tried to destroy during Cointelpro were rounded up and they tried to use them once again to destroy each other. I mean this is like years they were allegedly left in peace, and then suddenly they were back on the charts. See nothing is ever forgotten by that side, nothing forgiven. We should be equally the same. By that I just mean it’s good to be mindfull of who and what these people are.
http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/50s/hellman-per-fbi.html
Lillian Hellman’s FBI file
[quote]During her lifetime she was never put on trial and no violation of the law was ever noted, not even a misdemeanor. How can you withhold a document about her on grounds that it is in ‘the interest of national defense or foreign policy – your official printed reason? Miss Hellman never threatened her country; she merely irritated officials in Washington who did not like her politics or her plays.
The FBI files reveal that surveillance of Miss Hellman began by [unnamed] informants before World War II – independently and also because of her relationship with Dashiell Hammett. Surveillance was maintained by FBI informants and also by a mail watch of her correspondents and what she read.
In 1938 she was one of the speakers at a rally to support the Abraham Lincoln Brigade volunteers with the Loyalists during the Spanish Civil War. The same year she joined thirty six other authors in a petition to President Roosevelt to bar
[/quote]
You can be targeted for such simple things, and this targeting is nothing new, and what I failed to realise is that societies willingness or abilty to go along with such times is also nothing new. How I could have missed this before is beyond me, but I see it now a lot more clearly. It was there in the research, and in so many others ways. I just did not wish to see it for whatever reason.
http://apollo.demigod.org/~zak/documents/high-school/paper-mccarthyism/html
[quote]It is important to realize that the McCarthyesque idea of ignorant persecution did not come into being in 50 s, but had already existed for hundreds of years, with such historical examples such as the Spanish Inquisition and the Salem Witch Hunts. A more modern manifestation of the McCarthy mindset would be that once someone has been accused of sexual harassment, they are shunned socially, whether they are finally found guilty or not. It can be applied even in a broader sense as a tendency to not discuss things openly; a local example would be that many people in Hartland did not want the book Daddy’s Roommate in the Pauline Haass Public Library. Another example would be the war over Outcome Based Education that erupted several years ago and is still going on in this district. Everyone has a different idea, and they all want to point fingers and blame, without getting the facts out in the open and discussing them coolly and rationally. Yet another example of ignorance and hate would be that many people in Hartland are against Satanism, while there are very few who actually know what it is about. It is important to realize that the repercussions of even a relatively short period of McCarthyism have long-lasting effects; during the short time he had power, Joseph McCarthy left his mark on history, which is still influencing leaders today.
[/quote]
So once more society has gone into Trippin mode, and we the targets are caught up in it’s spin cycle of repression and stupidity, once again. So again nothing new. What is new and that has been throwing off targets is the electronic harassment. The State has found a new weapon to play with. I guess it’s like shock treatment to keep targets in line. Just like the Milgram experiments where you get a complete stranger to shock another stranger and do it more and more. Nothing new there eiteher, you have just found a way to do this remotely. Cleaver, cleaver, little State.
When you love your country you wear these little blinders that you are not aware of. You don’t tend to realise that your country can be just a bad, and repressive as any other state, or country. We also have such a good reputation in the world, that is just one more reason it took me longer to see this. I thought surly if my country was repressing it’s citizens in such a way, it would be discussed, but then look who owns the United Nations, and who runs it. It’s like being on the highschool league of justice commity. Your friends can do no wrong and they don’t get reported when they pull the same crap that other people do.
I guess I had this naive sense of pride in who my country and society were, and refused or could not see it as being as corrupt, flawed and bad as any other nation. It’s so horrible to have this truth wash over me, and yet it’s so free. The truth will make you free, but first it will make ya miserable. So true in so many ways.
So where does that leave targets? I mean we are in a slightly different age with the internet and the abiltiy to get information out to society and allegidly the world, but this has not changed much. That is because there are no true agencies or organisations that can change this. Unless you can bring the eyes of the world to your door steps like they did with South Africa, then this is not going to change.
For example it’s not unlike the pedophile down the street who is like a cop, or firefighter, and no one wants to see that they are bad. They have a good reputation and no one wants to see the truth. Or like Paul and Karla Homolka, I mean no one wants to see that shiny pretty couple answer the door and believe that they have some drugged teenager locked up in the basement and so they just walk away. No one wants to beleive our democratic countries, the judges of the world, the good guys of the world are doing these horrible things to thier citizens. It’s like trying to get people to believe that Priest are commiting derading acts on very young children. The people that don’t know, don’t want to believe, and the people that do know, don’t say anything, or didn’t for years. It’s so horrible that such shamefull things can happen in society, allegidly under the cover of darkness, but it’s not. It’s more like a big dirty open secret that everyone knows about and no one does anything about. They just accept that that’s the way it is.
So what can we learn from this boys and girls? The State is corrupt, murdering and dangerous, it’s always been like this, and I guess it probably always will be unless someone is interested in changing it. And the biggest lesson or surprise for me is still society and the individual will or lack there of, and people’s willingness to just go along with it. I am not trying to blame or judge anyone, I mean now that I have some idea of what you have been up against, and what that would mean I am less angry, but so disappointed. I mean what happened to standing up to peer-pressure? That’s right our society practically hazes children to fall in line with peer pressure, be it drugs, sex, alchol, or whatever, they learn to do whatever one else is doing, because that is how you fit in to society, that is how you will be liked, and admired, and so they are conditioned from an early age, that this is the price of acceptance, and for the most part it is. There there are those few, who somehow managed to come up in society and miss that lesson. Who resisted the peer pressures, and the world, and so here you are, here we are, here they are.
It’s all very fascinating that aspect of it, but the rest, is as it ever was. Targets have to find a way to survive, document this time period, just like the others that have gone before, and also try to help other real targets as best as we can, by sharing our experiences.
As far as agencies and the law, I still think we have to try to make people aware of what is happening from a target stand point of view. The same targeting that has been going on in society, that we have these laws against, is being commited by our own governments. The same drugs that people are going to jail for, are being imported by the CIA a branch of the government. As long as the corruption abounds, then so must awareness abound, and a few voices saying that this is wrong and this is not the way things should be.
Hum seems like this other person had the same issues with their state like over 2000 years ago, and spoke out against the corruption of that time period, and tried to help the poor, downtrodden and oppressed. He too woul become a target of the State. See the more things change, the more they stay the same.
http://www.antelope-ebooks.com/RELIGIOUS/Jesus/Jesus46.html
[quote]“Woe and misery to you scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites, you sanctimonious swindlers! You are like tombs that are kept beautifully painted white on the outside but inside are full of dead men’s bones and everything rotten and corrupt. You appear outwardly to others to be good and righteous, but inside you are full of filth and corruption, hypocrisy and lawlessness[/quote]
The System 2
The System. It controls all.
So when I wrote my last post a couple of days ago, I think I was starting to get this, but I don’t think I really got this. I was sitting on a bench the other day and this little Asian boy and his family passed by. He was skipping along just young, innocent, happy, unaware of the evils of the world I would say. His parents were doing the snitch patrol thing, but he was just being a kid, unaware of it all, and then I think I finally got it. (Well some of it.)
Just like I would have been this happy kid, not skipping along, but unaware of the world, and this systemic system that is before me. Much like that kid, I probably had adults in my life who were aware of this snitching system, and who were also a part of this. Much like him, I lived and grew oblivious to this system. Much like some of the other targets. The same targets who are seeing these family patterns, we are all assuming it’s something recent, because how could any of us envision a system that is like this.
At some point the targeted ones, are not for whatever reason absorbed into the Borg system, and maybe they do something that is out of line with our little controlled system. I mean I am still in the mode where I am thinking that my sensitization was accidental, but just like Mark and the other targets, there is probably nothing accidental about this stuff. It’s all used for purposes of control. Thus why they try to attach (Anchor) other sensitizations to the original one. (As was attempted with me last year.)
I would or couldn’t see this a year ago, not six months ago, maybe a month ago, but I get it now, well sort of. I think the problem is that most targets keep thinking this is brand new, most of us don’t think that something like this could exist in society and why would we? I mean we are taught one thing, and apparently the truth is something quite different. What I don’t get is why not just be honest about it?
China is pretty open about their snitching, Russia, East Germany, why all the farce and pretense, that you were not doing the exact same thing? This should have clicked before now. Red Squads (Red Squads, Protectors of Privilege) go back over a hundred years, the spying on campuses goes back over 70 years, (Spying101.com). This was never anything new, the only thing that is new, is our ability to compare notes. (The Internet)
When this happen to targets 15 years ago, even just 10 short years ago, the Internet was not what it was, so most targets would have suffered alone, unable to get help, thinking it was just them. Within the last few years however, with the groups that have formed we have targets comparing notes, being lead in the wrong direction by the disinfo agents, and now it makes a bit more sense.
There are no boundaries. I mean being rich or famous does not stop this. Eg. John Lennon. When he complained about being followed around in public by strangers, he said that if anything ever happened to him, it would be no accident. I just found out that in addition to his own government spying on him, my government also did. What a tag team. http://www.680news.com/news/national/article.jsp?content=n072373A
I have pointed out Eminem’s most recent lyrics. [quote]The track makes references to his phones being tapped, how an FBI van might pull up and he might just disappear, or maybe get taken out by a sniper one day. He goes on to say how he is focused on writing as many tracks as he can just incase something happens, and takes it one step further saying that he has already accepted he would be killed and then painted negatively for his actions. This is the point where the track briefly references 9/11 (after mentioning tremendous tremors) before going on to talk about 2 Pac predicting his death, and JFK’s assasination – an allusion to them both being killed for being ‘public enemy #1′ in the past.[/quote] http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2006/011206Eminem.htm Very telling.
And of course Mark M. Rich had said if he disappears, has an accident or goes missing, etc,etc, it would be no accident.
So this explains a lot, but not everything. Why do some parents get their kids into this creepy snitch system from an early age, while others leave their kids oblivious to this?
In these little covert investigations which are part of the farce, why are some people made aware of what’s going on, while others are not?
At least this explains why people go along with this, they are facing a an all encompasing system that is corrupt from top to bottom, that has ****large chunks of society,**** which I would say are in the majority that are a part of this. Thus explaining why people do not show more gumption.
If you are one of those people not in the know, you would never get it. You would just go through life, being unaware. You would also not believe it. You would have to see, feel and experience this for yourself. Once you do, you are not likely to forget.
Mobbing? How long was this going on in the workplaces, before it started getting documented? Is it as new as we first thought or was it on going for years, without being reported? Same question goes for bullying? It does appear with our ability to share and pass on information with the Internet and other mediums that there is now more awareness, but is that because the problem is at an all time high, or because people are finally in positions to document it? The same goes for who get’s targeted most.
Is it really an increase disproportionate to other time frames, or are we just documenting the occurrences more accurately?
Finally. The nice thing about a corrupt system, it will not sustain itself forever. There is a reason we don’t have the stupid and the corrupt at the helm. The Enron scandal comes to mind. http://www.electricityforum.com/news/dec03/enroncibc.html
Lot’s of people knew about this, from what I have read, it was a big open secret. Many knew, many did nothing, and look how well that turned out? The problem is, the system that supported this happening, has not changed, and if anything is probably worst than ever. Now that’s not too bad, because it’s only people’s money. What about when the stupid and corrupt are responsible for your drinking water, food supply, medicine, health care? We already see this working in our tribunals, courts, law offices, police departments. As a target you get to see the corrupt side of the tracks pretty quickly, and you understand the underlying consequences of this, but the rest of society, will not experience the fruits of these labours, the full fruit of this corrupt system till later, and then it will be a bit too late to correct it.
Just some food for thought. It’s early morning, for some odd reason the target is being kept awake, the EMF is flowing fast and free, so I thought it would be nice to share. If I can’t sleep, then I guess I can blog. 
Oh and remember, think nice thoughts, think nice thoughts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaWWImBFMCM
Out for a walk.
So I went out for a walk today. It was really nice. This month has been all together just so nice. The sun was just the right amount of warmth, and it was just so beautiful. It’ the sort of day you dream about, maybe I did. I went for a walk cause I am offline today. I woke up and my telephone and Internet were just gone. It was like ok. I really needed to get some stuff done and the last while has been sort of problems with the Internet and things like that. Plus there are all these other weird things happening with my phone line it’s hard to explain. Like yesterday I called someone from one connection, they could not hear me, so I called back the same number on the land line and ofcourse someone completely different answered the phone. I could see that I had dialed the right number, but I called again same thing. Plus sometimes the phone upstairs in my neighbours home rings, I hear nothing at my end in my apartment, but then I get a message on my answering machine. The phone company has offered to look into it and to try to bill me if the problem is on my end. Government covert investigations, what category does that fall into? Anyways I hope they get the problem fixed soon, but then I don’t. I really enjoyed my time outside today. Plus since the phone going dead without any dial tone was what would happen at the other apartment I am sure it’s being done from the same source. I understand this is outside of the guidelines, but then so is everything else, however it’s something that should be getting reported, so here it is. From what I understand there are guidelines that should be getting followed and cutting off my phone/Internet service is not one of them. So many targets report these sorts of interferences. Sometimes you just have to watch them in action and see the stuff that they do, and come up with. They get the stupidest creatures working for them, and with them sometimes it’s just frustrating, but that’s the idea. Oh well.
It’s weird you know it feels like the world has changed, but then I realise that it has not. The world is the exact same as it always was, the only thing that has changed is my perception of it. People snitching, spying, betraying, lying it’s all the same as it ever was. My awareness is all that has changed. The world is as it always was. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing, but that is where it is.
I had gone for a walk the other day as well, and it was so nice, people, children the park I walked past, it all seemed so nice, but in the back drop their is this knowledge. It’s almost like in T2 (Terminator 2) You see Sarah at the park with the kid, and the swing, then you see the other Sarah, the one who is all too aware of the danger and the destruction that is about to happen, and then you get that really cool nuclear war scene. It happens so fast. I am not exactly expecting nuclear war, but my city for me has changed. I mean we are nothing better than the Stasi’s were. People lying, spying and betraying each other. Then there is still the other scenes. People living their day to day lives. Some maybe not snitching and spying, some maybe not even aware of these happenings, like I was not just a year ago. That anniversary is up and coming. A year of being aware of this weirdness. I don’t see how targets do this. Some for years and years. I guess I understand why some opt out of the game, or change sides, or just lose it. Anyways for today the world is just so beautiful and wonderful.
I decided to take some time and go to the park. I wanted to write and update you, my people out in cyberspace. Offline it’s like cat has got every-one’s tongue, and online it’s just so different. Some people can actually talk about what is happening, offline it’s harder. No one knows who they can trust, and they are scared, or happily going along with this, leading their little existences, hoping to stay off the radar of the powers that be. Knowing this time is coming slowly, but surly, like a woman who is about to give birth, the contractions of this end time, will start to come closer and closer together, till the moment is here. I think that is sort of how the bible described some of this stuff. It’s all making sense. It never does at the time it’s all written down, but prophesy unfolding is a pretty neat thing. One world government, global dominance, and a snitch force to keep everyone in line, mini contractions of this system that is soon fully to be born. People giving up their wills, and worshiping or bowing down to whoever and whatever. Yep humans pretty much do not change.
Back to my day. So I took a walk, it was a wonderful walk. It was a walk that was straight out of a dream. It was just so nice. It was like I had walked it before. It was just so familiar. I felt like I knew what would happen along the path I don’t remember dreaming about the day or how it would be, but it was more like a feeling, like I knew what would happen along the path.
I knew that when I walked down a specific street, it would be like I would run into an old friend, and in a way I did. I expected to find this specific store at a certain point and there it was. Remember this is a path that I have never walked before, but I knew it with such certainty. Then after I left the store, I just realised or had a sense that I was going the wrong way, so after I changed directions, I walked the other way. I wound up in front of a police station. Today I was suppose to follow up on trying to get the reports filed, I had called and left a message yesterday, to say that I would be calling back today. So I really did not want to go in face to face, I mean we all know my wonderful journey thus far, and I was just going to walk away, but I had the strongest feeling that I was suppose to go in, you know, like I had already done this. So I bucked up the courage, I did not have any of my notes with me. I mean I didn’t have the report printed out, so I could not just leave a copy of that with someone, which is the advice I received last week. Like I said I would have walked away, but it was just so familiar, just like everything else on that path. I have heard people describe this before, I think I have forgotten a lot of this spiritual stuff that I know on the one hand. So anyways I went in. I ran into this really youthful looking officer. He really looked very young. However he seemed really nice. Now I use to think I could tell if people were good or bad, etc, but ofcourse the last year of my life has taught me differently. Remember I was the one with everyone in my life helping directly or indirectly to ruin me. Most of the people I thought I knew or sort of trusted were a part of this, however he just seemed so familiar. The conversation flowed more or less, and to make a long story short he is going to try to update the report from December. The one where office Broker really messed up the report that I filed, and based on the stuff that I have seen, and that has happened to other targets, probably intentional.
So anyways I have no assurances that this officer will do anything different than the others have, I did not do all the things that I know that I am suppose to do when interacting with the police force, since I realise that targets are not able to trust the people they were taught to trust. I have no guarantees, that he will do anything different. My guarantees are his word. Are people’s words worth anything anymore? He seemed really nice, but then so do a lot of other people including sociopaths, and pedophiles, that’s why they are able to get away with that stuff for such long periods of time. The main thing that I am going on is that it felt like what I was suppose to do. No more importantly it felt like something I had already done, and the physical here and now was just this formality. There were these awesome flowers out on the road today, nothing out of the ordinary, but how many times have I stopped to smell the roses in the last year? It was just so nice to do that today. I really don’t know how I manage to spend so much time inside. Yet I do.
I am going to cut this post short. I am in the park and I am out of juice or soon will be. So all I have is my own sense of this was what I was suppose to be doing today, and the word of a really nice looking youthful officer, who seemed sincere, but don’t they all. So we will see what we will see. Anyways, I am going to enjoy the rest of the day, and the moment I am back online, or get to a cafe, I will get this cool mellow post out to you.
Peace out.
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